17 September 2006

Dead Poet's Society

Selichos is a tough time of year for Frum men, especially skeptics. But the first night is always exhilarating, even for me. No, I don't worry and shukkel about asking God for mercy, R"H is no different than any other day. But I still enjoy understanding the meaning of some of the Selichos. B'motsei Menucha Keedomnucha Techeeluh. Ah. What eloquence! This is poetry at it's finest. I really don't know much about these Jewish authors, but I propose they were the MO Rabbis of their times, stretching the boundaries of what was acceptable and creating new forms of worship that did not exist in prior generations. Such creativity. I cannot imagine they spent all their time poring over a Ktos (Yes, I know it's an anachronism).


So, during those long hours in shul, you can either live in a yeshivish dread or you can at least extract some appreciation of our heritage.

Which will it be for you?
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I'm back now from first night Selichos. Well, maybe exhilarating is the wrong word.
But the point remains. It's a long month coming up and I try to make the best of it.

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    18 Comments:

    At September 17, 2006 2:18 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    I think you should spend your time finding out why we have to say 10 verses of shoforot, but only 9 verses appear in Nach.

    1. Find out if that is true.
    2. Find out why this doesn't bother me/believers who think.
    3. don't give yourself an answer like "they live with cognotive dissonance" that is such a cop out answer its not even worth considering.

    I am curious what you come up with.

     
    At September 17, 2006 2:19 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    For 1. If it is not true, try to figure out why the Gemorah says it is true. And no "different text" answers.. Also a cop out.

     
    At September 17, 2006 8:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

    when my relatives asked where I attended slichos last night- I didn't was my reply. I just don't do it anymore.

     
    At September 17, 2006 9:38 PM, Blogger Billie Jean said...

    I never could get into slichot. I haven't gone to shule for them for a few years now. Last year was the first year I didn't say them at home though.

     
    At September 18, 2006 12:13 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

    What was Rosh Hasahana and Yom Kippur like in the 9th century? Must have had a long break.
    PA

     
    At September 18, 2006 10:11 AM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    IC, I'll think about that when I'm bored on R'H.

    Anon1, really? You just said you don't attend? That's brave. How did they react? Even though, I'm *frum*, I really would have no compunctions skipping slichos, it's just that I'd probably be missed.

    BJ, there are some beautiful parts to Slichos, My father's "Al Tashlichaynu L'Ais Zikna" still rings in my ears and brings tears to my eyes.

    PA, people don't seem to stop and think about how things MUST have evolved. My Rav once glossed over it and said something like, Oh the Yidden were better then and didn't NEED slichos. Ha Ha Ha.

     
    At September 18, 2006 12:24 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    What makes you think they didn't have slichos that was written individually by each person? Like how the Gemora describes?

     
    At September 18, 2006 12:52 PM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    > What makes you think they didn't have slichos that was written individually by each person?

    Everyone had 12 hours of personal Slichos to keep busy on R'H and Y'K?

    Like how the Gemora describes? Please elaborate. Where.

     
    At September 18, 2006 6:05 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    Its called Mesechet Yoma, and Rosh Hashana.

    Actually, if you did slichot as proscribed by the Gemorah, and viduy, it would take you the full month to get ready for slichot.

    On R'H and YK, you would be so busy you wouldn't even know that there was a break.

     
    At September 18, 2006 7:26 PM, Blogger Billie Jean said...

    > there are some beautiful parts to Slichos, My father's "Al Tashlichaynu L'Ais Zikna" still rings in my ears and brings tears to my eyes.

    Either I was in the wrong shule or waaaay too cranky to appreciate it (because I was up too late/early).

     
    At September 18, 2006 8:13 PM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    IC, I don't know of any slichos at all in the Gemara. Yoma is a lot about the Karbanos which were done mostly by the kohanim. It's the Kohen Gadol who was busy all day. There are no slichos in Gemara, I think. And slichos, I believe, were not composed for 1,000 years after Bais Shainee, Like PA said, they had a long break

     
    At September 19, 2006 1:53 AM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    You are being waaaay to technical.

    13 words of mercy from the Torah, are mentioned in the Gemorah, Ashamnu Bagadnu I believe is mentioned in the Gemorah.

    The Gemorah as far as I know describes a process where you take each letter of the aleph beit and write down every sin you committed on that letter. Take a full acount of everything you think you might have done wrong, and go over it and repent on it.

     
    At September 19, 2006 10:54 AM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    > The Gemorah as far as I know describes a process where you take each letter of the aleph beit and write down every sin you committed on that letter. Take a full acount of everything you think you might have done wrong, and go over it and repent on it.


    That's not slichos for 2 weeks and all day Y'K. Also, I don't think that practice is of Gemora times, I thinks it's later.
    I don't even know if Ashamnu itseld is from Gemora times.

     
    At September 19, 2006 5:30 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    You can focus on the dissimilarities if you like,

    However what the gemorah describes is NOTHING like the concept of Confession that Catholics do. (as a random example)

     
    At September 19, 2006 5:43 PM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    IC, trace your steps back.
    PA said there was a long break a thousnad years ago. I concurred.

    You claimed "Actually, if you did slichot as proscribed by the Gemorah, and viduy, it would take you the full month to get ready for slichot.

    On R'H and YK, you would be so busy you wouldn't even know that there was a break"

    You tried to back that up with Gemara Yoma. I believe that is false.

     
    At September 19, 2006 6:02 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    No, I backed that up with Gemara Yoma AND Rosh Hashana.. Yoma has a few aggadatahs supporting me, Rosh Hashana has most of the halacaha supporting me.

     
    At September 19, 2006 6:02 PM, Blogger Irviner Chasid said...

    I should be more precise... Yoma has agadatahs that I was taught by teachers which gave me the impression that I am correct. and rosh Hashana the hallachas.

     
    At September 19, 2006 11:10 PM, Blogger Baal Habos said...

    IC, I think if you checked into you'll find I am correct.

     

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